Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Sep 23, 2021 10:11 pm Hey all, I'm seeking advice. We have hybrid flooring in our home which is 18 months old now and the floor boards have warped and bowed. It started about a year ago but has progressively gotten worse, warping in both directions. I contacted the installer and he came out with the floor rep to have a look. They said it's due to the skirting boards pressing down too tightly on the floor, not allowing the boards to expand and contract evenly. The skirting is tight in random areas, mostly at the corners and doorways. The floor failure is consistand and even across the entire area, so I don't believe the symptoms match the suggested cause. What else would if be, floor failure? Hybrid flooring is Soliel by Airstep, it's a PVC core hybrid floating floor. Any advice on how to proceed? Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Hybrid flooring warping 3Sep 28, 2021 2:45 pm Yes, expansion joints all round, it was professionally installed by Barossa Carpet Court. Luckily Carpet Court have said they will replace the floor (with a different product) regardless of what Airstep say. Apparently mine isn't the only one that has failed in this way so they have stopped selling the product completely. I spoke to another flooring expert and he said it's 100% a product failure, probably due to high PVC content in the SPC core causing failure due to heat. He advised to go for a high stone content SPC core product to avoid this type of failure (nothing made in China). Lesson learnt: avoid Airstep products, not all hybrid floors are equal, hybrid floor lifetime warranties are worthless, and go with a reputable installer who you know will always support their customers. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 4Sep 28, 2021 3:37 pm Good news! May i know which brand of hybrid your are going with? I m getting my laminate floor removed. Pretty much brand new and similar to you our laminate also got issue confirmed by the both shop and supplier. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 5Sep 28, 2021 5:07 pm Still researching what to go with but I was recommended Empower by Armstrong Flooring as this is a mineral core hybrid plank so it's "supposed" to be more stable but I want to validate it from someone who has the product first. Unfortunately it's relatively new and therefore untested in the long term. Also looking into the newer range of laminate flooring which are advertised as being more water resistant as I'm struggling to trust hybrid again. Hybrid flooring warping 6Sep 28, 2021 6:15 pm I m in the same boat as you, deciding on which one to go with. My local shop suggested Hydro Plank by Terramatter (though he said I should go with other brand which he thinks is better - but this particular brand i will never buy from them again) Re: water resistant laminate - this is what I am going remove. I can tell you what I currently have via PM if you like. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 7Oct 08, 2021 10:10 am Thanks Caru We had water damage to our original laminate. Prior to that the odd spillage which would also make it bubble. Always stressed about leaving sliding doors open or grandkids spilling drinks Would never have laminate again even though it is now supposed to be new and improved. I'm even a little worried about hybrid but vinyl plank from all accounts scratches an damages more easily. Plus we couldn't find the right colour in vinyl as it will meet up with an American oak staircase. We also need to get close to 12mm thickness. Cheers! Re: Hybrid flooring warping 9Oct 20, 2021 7:16 am AJC It is an installation issue. Nothing to do with the product. Very common actually. 100% the laying. How so? What part of the installation process would cause every board to bow and warp in both directions, in every room? 100% the laying is a bold claim to make with zero rationale to go with it. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 10Oct 20, 2021 7:58 am jimmytheboarhunter AJC It is an installation issue. Nothing to do with the product. Very common actually. 100% the laying. How so? What part of the installation process would cause every board to bow and warp in both directions, in every room? 100% the laying is a bold claim to make with zero rationale to go with it. The head joints have failed because of ONLy two reasons 1) they were engaged incorrectly and the lower part of the head joint will be broken in some instances, if not all, and if you look closely the head joint will look like a ski jump. Tell take signs. 2) the expansion gap of 8-10mm will not be consistent everywhere and I mean everywhere It’s no skin off my nose if Brian from Barossa wants to blame the product, but I am just assisting you to advise the facts. The misinformation I read on this forum on most topics to do with flooring is huge, it’s mostly a classic case of the blind leading the blind and I felt compelled to sign in and answer your question. I’ve seen hundreds of photos of exactly the same and it is always and I mean always the same conclusion. It’s easy to blame the product but when you drill into it if your floor is faulty then there will be thousands of floors the same as that’s how much of the product is made at a time; and that’s not the case. Manufacturing faults don’t occur randomly they occur by batch. I have a business to run and won’t log in again but just wanted to give you some advice that was based on the truth not supposition. Good luck regardless! Re: Hybrid flooring warping 11Oct 20, 2021 8:10 am I think it can be anything - product or installation issue. From my perspective it’s irrelevant especially if 1\ we are ready to pay to get subfloor prepared 2\ we accept the need for expansion gap 3\ we agree to pay for other cost associated to get floor installed correctly 4\ we do our homework and choose a reputable business Bottom line is for some customers work around the house isnt our main expertise and therefore heavily relying on advise given by shop and installer. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 12Oct 20, 2021 9:30 am jimmytheboarhunter hybrid floor lifetime warranties are worthless they're not. you are literally benefiting from one right now. lol Full replacement due to failed product. No less by the original installer...kinda redundant comment, no? Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 13Oct 20, 2021 5:21 pm AJC jimmytheboarhunter AJC It is an installation issue. Nothing to do with the product. Very common actually. 100% the laying. How so? What part of the installation process would cause every board to bow and warp in both directions, in every room? 100% the laying is a bold claim to make with zero rationale to go with it. The head joints have failed because of ONLy two reasons 1) they were engaged incorrectly and the lower part of the head joint will be broken in some instances, if not all, and if you look closely the head joint will look like a ski jump. Tell take signs. 2) the expansion gap of 8-10mm will not be consistent everywhere and I mean everywhere It’s no skin off my nose if Brian from Barossa wants to blame the product, but I am just assisting you to advise the facts. The misinformation I read on this forum on most topics to do with flooring is huge, it’s mostly a classic case of the blind leading the blind and I felt compelled to sign in and answer your question. I’ve seen hundreds of photos of exactly the same and it is always and I mean always the same conclusion. It’s easy to blame the product but when you drill into it if your floor is faulty then there will be thousands of floors the same as that’s how much of the product is made at a time; and that’s not the case. Manufacturing faults don’t occur randomly they occur by batch. I have a business to run and won’t log in again but just wanted to give you some advice that was based on the truth not supposition. Good luck regardless! The boards themselves are bowing, not the joints. The joints are fine. Funny how the floor rep didn't state that was the problem when he inspected the floor if it is so obvious as you suggest. Also interesting how you're the only one suggesting its an installation fault when multiple other flooring experts I've talked to about it stated they were certain it's product failure, and audibly laughed when I suggested it was due to "skirting being too tight" as per the initial reason I was given. Also interesting how the floor was fine when initially installed, but gradually got worse over 12 months. If it was an installation faul then wouldn't it be visible from the start? If you've seen hundreds of photos of the same thing then it sounds like the product has failed hundreds of times but you just keep blaming it on something else! How many more failed floors do you need to see before you realise "maybe it is the product"? If it's so easy to break the boards when installing them (EVERY board as you said) then it sounds like a terrible product and is still a product failure! Re: Hybrid flooring warping 14Oct 20, 2021 5:30 pm Noname jimmytheboarhunter hybrid floor lifetime warranties are worthless they're not. you are literally benefiting from one right now. lol Full replacement due to failed product. No less by the original installer...kinda redundant comment, no? No, the manufacturer is refusing to admit fault of their product, the warranty is through the manufacturer not the installer. Also if the product fails then under warranty they replace it with the same product, meaning you get to install the same faulty product again! The manufacturer is also the one who decides whether the product failure is their fault or not, obviously they look for any excuse to avoid admiting fault of their product and blame it on anything else they can such as installation, skirting boards, something being too heavy on the floor, etc (see AJC's comments above as a classic example). Carpet Court are replacing the flooring at their cost with a different product, not under the product warranty. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 16Oct 20, 2021 6:39 pm The Trade Practices Act 1974 (now the competition and consumer Act 2010 0r 11 , can't recall) protects consumers when they buy goods and services. It does so by saying that there are legal rights and obligations in every contract between a buyer and a seller. For example, the law requires that goods must be free of defects, and do what they are meant to do. Services must be carried out with care and skill. Consumers’ rights, which the Act says automatically form part of every contract between buyer and seller, are called statutory rights. Regardless of what the manufacturer claims, you contract was with the supplier not the manufacturer. The supplier can seek recourse from the manufacturer for the loses due using the faulty product on multiple installs. That is however not your problem. A lifetime warranty offered by the manufacturer on sold to you via a third party is still the sellers responsibility as the seller will have relied on it in the sale of their product. So yeah. You benefited from it. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 17Oct 20, 2021 6:46 pm AJC You’re the expert champ. Good luck. You want to be careful about a defamation filing. Your post is massively inaccurate and has been viewed 5000 odd times and cost that manufacturer. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. If I were you I would edit or delete what you’ve said. And I have ZERO affiliation with any manufacturer although I know them all very very well. I’m not here to defend them. I am here to set the record straight that what you claim is rubbish and would be easily proven so in court. You have no idea who I am mate. My advice to you is rock solid. It’s a gift to you. If you don’t want to know the truth then that’s fine but don’t denigrate a manufacturer without facts that stand up in court if they file defamation for costing them hundreds of thousands in lost sales champion. Unless you have deep pockets that is…. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 18Oct 20, 2021 6:54 pm AJC viewed 5000 odd times and cost that manufacturer. Exceptionally hard to prove. The manufacturer would have to asert that a proportion of those 5000 would have actually bought their product otherwise. So basically impossible to prove there has even a loss incurred. Also a post like that of the op isn't defamatory at all. Several defences can be relied on to defend such a claim quite easily. Something tells me the manufacturer isn't going to be pursuing such a claim lol Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 19Oct 20, 2021 7:37 pm AJC AJC You’re the expert champ. Good luck. You want to be careful about a defamation filing. Your post is massively inaccurate and has been viewed 5000 odd times and cost that manufacturer. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. If I were you I would edit or delete what you’ve said. And I have ZERO affiliation with any manufacturer although I know them all very very well. I’m not here to defend them. I am here to set the record straight that what you claim is rubbish and would be easily proven so in court. You have no idea who I am mate. My advice to you is rock solid. It’s a gift to you. If you don’t want to know the truth then that’s fine but don’t denigrate a manufacturer without facts that stand up in court if they file defamation for costing them hundreds of thousands in lost sales champion. Unless you have deep pockets that is…. My post is inaccurate? I posted my experience on a forum where people discuss their experiences and opinions. Everything I've said is 100% accurate and I know exactly what I'm talking about, I'm talking about my first hand experience with this flooring. My comments about the cause of failure is information I was provided by other flooring experts and thats exactly how I framed the information. My post is to provide information so that hopefully no one else has to go through what I've gone through, you threatening me to take my post down and keep my silence in fear of legal action doesn't reflect well on you or the company you are so furiously defending. Due to this flooring I'm going to be thousands of dollars out of pocket after ripping off all my skirting, replacing it and repainting the walls. If anyone should be getting sued it's Airstep. You also didn't address any of the questions I asked, I genuinely want to know the cause of why my floor failed. "100% the laying" doesn't nearly explain how my boards have universally bowed and warped across every panel in every room. The explanation of high PVC content (cheaper manufacturing process) in the core leading to board failure when it got too hot does explain it. After suggesting this as the cause the person I spoke to said "it will be worse near windows with direct sunlight" and after I checked that was correct. Unsure how installation fault explains that. Re: Hybrid flooring warping 20Oct 24, 2021 10:34 am I m now really interested to hear more from AJC, perspective of a business owner. To some extent i do agree that problem with flooring more often than not is due to installation issue. This is quite common recently for reasons that we dont need to discuss. Though the key here is as a business owner if you sell the product and also do the installation for the customer and one year later the product fails, what do you think is fair or at least need to happen? Fixing come at a cost, financially and mentally. 1 16282 ShaneG We have been doing heaps of hybrid floors lately. 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